Wed, Apr. 19th, 2006, 08:34 pm
This would have been easier if I could draw.
I really should know better, but I clicked on a link to the DC message boards, topic of the new Frank Miller cover.
In summary... this is why I’m going to stay way the hell over here okay thanks. However, one exchange did catch my attention and would not let me shake it as it might have a sane person. maelithil
Depicting [women] as an ass, a pair of tits, some gorgeous thighs is doing them a disservice. Distilling them into nothing but their sexual attributes is objectifying. And that's exactly what this cover does.
And notice that Superman's chest is OFTEN a whole panel unto itself. Not Superman fighting the bad guy. Not Superman standing full figure. Superman's chest. Just his chest. His huge, massive, S-draped, extraterrestrially muscular chest. Is Superman being objectified? Is he being used? Should I cry for Superman?
And. Just. What? This is the counterexample?
But! Maybe it’s not that his logic is just that scary. Maybe it's hard to understand what she’s talking about because it really, honestly is that there’s no comparable example featuring a male denizen of the DCU. I mean, even the occasional Nightwing crotch shot *tries* to have context.
Obviously, something had to be done. For The Good Of Fandom.
Luckily, much like Miller, I have no shame. Totally Appropriate Covers
(with bonus, never before seen script excerpts!)
Hal’s flying away from us through a generic starfield, nothing interesting to see except him. Have him wriggle around, giving us a good shot of his package. Add some details, something fancy for the fanboys to drool over, but don’t let it draw attention away from the point of the cover – that Kyle has nothing, NOTHING, on my boy Hal.
Be careful with this one – we don’t want Supes to come off as too powerful, too imposing. Maybe have him lean a bit, off balance, the better to show off his *well filled* briefs. He's fiddling with the waist line, such a cock *heh* tease. He knows he’s got what we want, and if we turn the cover, he’ll let us have it.
Well, we’ve done just about every variation on the theme by now, so let’s go back to the basics: Black on black, a full cover shot of Batman’s ass. Add in the utility belt for colour – give it that Sin City look. Show me thick, powerful legs under that latex or whatever the hell he wears. Clenched butt muscles. Make it obvious this is no BatGIRL we’re talking about.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 04:16 am (UTC)
They seem to have shut up for now, but if they start spouting nonesense again can I link them to the pictures? Because this is EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT GODDAMMIT.
Perfect. This is perfect. And also awesome.
*HEARTS YOU MIGHTILY*
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 04:19 am (UTC)
Go ahead! This is their whole purpose.
I mean, you wouldn't want crotch-grabbing Superman to be unfulfilled...
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 04:18 am (UTC)
I want to comment praising you for the clear message you've transmitted using art, your well-crafted and precise metaphor, or somesuch intelligent comment as you deserve.
But actually? The little green nutsack seam has my brain melting and dripping out my ears.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 04:24 am (UTC)
(And I figure if Miller gets recostuming privileges, then so do I.)
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 04:27 am (UTC)
…wow, this is exactly as horrifying as it should be, and also, why you are awesome. Gah! I'm going to go brainpuke now.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 06:04 am (UTC)
It's very sad I feel victorious on account of you feeling ill, isn't it.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 05:03 am (UTC)
Man, if All-Star Batman
looked like that, I might actually pick up an issue.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 05:19 am (UTC)
Well, there is Diana's ass... You could pretend Bruce is crossdressing?
You know, for *justice*.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 06:09 am (UTC)
Damn. I think I love you. Just... yes. Exactly.
::cue ironic use of icon::
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 05:42 pm (UTC)
*considers ironic icon* Is that Harley? I loved that miniseries.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 11:13 am (UTC)
The worst/best part is, your lovely and pointed covers are anatomically possible, whereas Miller's lady appears to have disjointed her spine.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 05:46 pm (UTC)
I know! But I have no drawing skills, so I was left with trying to figure out photoshop. (Or saving myself hours and just doing the text, I suppose, but we've all heard it before.)
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 02:25 pm (UTC)
*flails* Yes. Exactly.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 05:49 pm (UTC)
Thanks. It's just... this was *necessary*, you know?
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 08:09 pm (UTC)
Oh god this is hilarious (and a bit disturbing. a lot) but also, so very much just *it*. Oh man. :)
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 12:50 am (UTC)
hilarious (and a bit disturbing. a lot)
*g* I'm glad that came across. It would have lost something with *tasteful* images, I think.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 08:16 pm (UTC)
You know what's astonishing about FM? He can't draw for shit. In "Sin City," the art was "stylized," but in a bright mainstream superhero comic, his drawings look like the work of an arthritic bear.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 08:20 pm (UTC)
That's what momma wants. Yum!
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 08:28 pm (UTC)
Oh god. Yes, love it, thanks. If just one cover like this made it out, I would never again have to deal with icky guys at the comics shop. But they would finally get it.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 08:51 pm (UTC)
Exactly. (And I don't think I'd miss the icky type of guys, although it may be the industry might...)
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 08:37 pm (UTC)
Bwahaha. These are great.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 08:58 pm (UTC)
The poster goes on along the lines of it not being Miller's fault Diana's Icon is on her ass, actually... at which point my brain sort of imploded and you can see the result.
I mean, I'm not arguing against pin up covers or blatant fanservice, really. It's just that the objectification *is* there, and it is *skeevy* when you're not the intended audience.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 10:50 pm (UTC)
This is brilliant, and disturbing, and funny, and makes the point perfectly
. Especially with the "script." Very Well Done.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 12:44 am (UTC)
Thanks very much!
(I just... I can not get over that script for All Star Batman. Or that they *published it*.)
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 10:54 pm (UTC)
Heh. My fandom's weakness is listening to lying blue god-gnomes when they tell me I can't hurt yellow things.
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 11:40 pm (UTC)
It doesn't have *quite* the same ring, I think. ;)
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 11:17 pm (UTC)
Thu, Apr. 20th, 2006 11:23 pm (UTC)
These? Are fabulous! Every woman in comic fandom should bookmark this post for the next time the "but women aren't objectified" argument comes up. Heh.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 12:47 am (UTC)
And if they come back and say "What? I don't see the problem here either," then, well, they are still dumb, I suppose. Or more probably lying.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 12:30 am (UTC)
Ended up here from a link on someone elses journal.
You win. The internets is yours!
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 12:48 am (UTC)
Yay! *takes them and runs, giggling manically*
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 12:53 am (UTC)
Sheeee-it, if I saw any of those on the stands, I'd be on 'em like white on rice. Any comic doing something that
unexpected absolutely deserves my $$$.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 01:23 am (UTC)
Hee! This is obviously a marketing strategy DC hasn't considered.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 01:44 am (UTC)
What perfect visual statements. Thank you.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 02:17 am (UTC)
(here from the onion)
Y'know, after those TBS commercials for Lord of the Rngs targeting slash writers (the Frodo is gay for Sam ones), maybe DC will cotton on to alternative markets?
Nah . . . .
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 02:33 am (UTC)
I've never seen those commercials, which surprises me - I would expect they'd have spread all over the internet. When were they aired?maybe DC will cotton on to alternative markets?
You never know! Perhaps the competition from the yaoi manga will finally drive them to it.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 02:25 am (UTC)
The Superman cover... Oh, *god*, the Superman cover... I don't know what's more disturbing, the drawings or your spot-on Miller notes.
You rule. Please don't do this too often, it couldn't have been good for your sanity, trying to get inside his head...
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 02:40 am (UTC)
It was actually surprisingly easy to mimic the script style. I don't know if that says more about him... or *me*. I've decided not to dwell.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 02:32 am (UTC)
You know, I read his Sin City stuff and I think, "Okay, he's obviously exaggerating the noir conventions regarding women, turning them around to grant the women of old town a kind of power and autonomy, so maybe I can let that slide...as problematic as it is."
Then I read stuff like this so-called "All Star" Batman and Robin series full of cheesecake ass shots and I think, "Okay...maybe he's just exaggerating masculinity conventions of comics to make some kind of satirical point. Dark Knight Returns is pretty satirical...he can do satire..."
Then I read the All Star issue with Black Canary and see this cover and I think, "Yeah...Miller just likes T'n'A." Subtlety goes out the window. And to do this to Wonder Woman, off all characters. Where the fuck is her arm? It was in the way of a boob, so off it goes?
I bet he’s getting cut a fat paycheque for this stuff. Hope he's enjoying himself.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 03:00 am (UTC)
yeeeah... i was kinda thinkin that miller was just being satirical too, and i had to have an argument with someone before i saw the light, but yeah. he's just a huge. fucking. misogynist.
and bill sienkiewicz kinda came off that way too in stray toasters
(well, also elektra:assassin
, but miller wrote that, so i wasn't entirely sure where to assign the blame), which is sad.
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 02:33 am (UTC)
Came here from a friend's LJ. You are a bad. Bad. Person. Keyboards everywhere curse your name.
And now I must go clean my
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 02:44 am (UTC)
Hee! I'm sorry, but I make no apologies!
Or, wait. Hmmm. Can I start the gloating over?
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 03:08 am (UTC)
hm, and here i thought you were going to refer to the black canary cover i saw tonight, but no. wow.
and i would just like to say, HELLS YEAH! i might actually pic up an issue of action comics
if it had the promise of such action in it ; )
also, i'm surprised that no one's mentioned this
recent cover though. i mean, while not quite frank miller, my first thought when i saw it was "WHOA! ASS!" and i briefly thought about buying x-men again (partially due to a fondness for silvestri from days when he sucked less and my taste in comics sucked more).
Fri, Apr. 21st, 2006 03:19 am (UTC)
Hee! This is the first time I've seen that cover - Marvel is confusing, all that continuity. *Nothing* like DC. ;)
I hadn't seen the Black Canary cover either, at least not until after I posted this. I still think the Wonder Woman one is worse, however.